Mads Singers – Get the most out of your outsourced team
Mads Singers is a management consultant, trainer and also outsources as well. He has an outsourcing operation down in Davao, Philippines. I had a really good conversation with Mads about how to motivate and run remote teams, and more importantly, how to get the best out of your outsourcing operation.
Management consulting service
Derek Gallimore: We have Mads Singers who runs a management consulting firm, and I’ve been excited to talk to him for some time now. Hi, Mads. How are you?
Mads Singers: I’m doing fantastic. How are you doing?
Derek Gallimore: Fantastic. Fantastic. And so I hear you’re in the UK now but spend a lot of your time in the Philippines.
Mads Singers: Definitely. I’ve been in the UK for a few months, mostly because there’s been a lot of conferences around SEO and e-commerce here that I’ve been speaking up. But most of my time is spent in Asia. So primarily split up between the Philippines, Vietnam, and Thailand.
Derek Gallimore: Fantastic. And I’m kind of into your angle and the services that you offer because you’re into management coaching, also management consulting, and then you also weave that into, you know, outsourcing. And I also, you know, because we are like an outsourcing advisory, see so much overlap in all of those services.
Great to explore that with you, because we’re all here to get the best out of our businesses, optimize all the processes, and of course, the quarter that is, you know, making our teams perform as well as they’re, they’re able to so would love your insight on that I supposed to stand you want to just introduce exactly what Mads Singers is the management consulting service.
Mads Singers: Sure. So just brief sort of my background was originally in last corporations, I worked first at Xerox and an IBM, and was doing, particularly the last five years, a lot of outsourcing. Right. So with IBM, though, I mean, IBM will go in and take over hundreds, and maybe thousands, of people sometimes and outsource to work to themselves. And that was what I was doing for quite a while. Now, that was very much a stepping stone into what I do today.
Towards the end of my career with IBM, I started coaching people, primarily, other corporate managers. But as soon as I left IBM, I got into the environment of these online entrepreneurs and you know, smaller business owners and the joy and helping and coaching people in that situation, it’s just so much bigger than working with corporate. So that’s pretty much what I’ve been doing the last six, seven years or so. The core focus for me is helping small and mid-sized business owners manage the staff better.
A lot of people they start an online business and you know, suddenly they look around, and they have 15-20 people sitting around them, but they’ve never actually got any background or any experience on how to manage, and that just kind of do it the best I know, right? So I’ve helped a large number of businesses become a lot more effective at the management piece, which again, significantly helps them grow and scale.
Because a lot of the time it is the sort of lack of efficiency and building teams and, and there is sort of a natural progression like you can get to a certain size without having much understanding. And even without managing that well. But at some point, your business kind of stops growing, because you don’t have sort of the right management systems and you don’t have the right way to handle people. And that’s really what I focus on a lot.
Then, on the back of that, as you mentioned, I mean, I run outsourcing business as well, which focused primarily on providing high-quality labor. And we help with the management of some of that. So basically, our client can just focus on, like, what the person should be doing and how they should be doing it. So we try and take care of some of all the soft skills because again, we realized that most of our clients are very good at that. And so yeah, that’s what I do.
Derek Gallimore: So when you talk about management coaching, do you focus primarily on the people empowering the people that communication? Or do you dive into process mapping, process management, KPIs, and metrics? What’s your angle?
Mads Singers: My focus is generally the people aspect because that’s where I feel most people struggle. And that’s where I feel is probably the biggest lack of, let’s call it training or understanding the material in that term.
I mean, to be honest, I touched on pretty much anything, touch a lot of financials, we touch a lot of different aspects, depending on what people need. But my main focus is around to people aspect, I spend a lot of time so on behavior models, understanding how business owners can see how people are different, like how different staff are good at different things, and so on. So that’s generally a lot of my focus and that’s generally what my clients love.
Derek Gallimore: Without giving away the secret sauce, what are some of the high runs with it? Because I mentioned a lot of the people, staff, especially when you’re dealing with online entrepreneurs, the remote workers, the digital nomads, they might be a little bit steely.
If you come to them with a lot of soft skills, and maybe intangible skill sets, do they sometimes kind of resist or push back? Do you have sort of certain tools or practices that are easy home wins?
Mads Singers: So again, just like I help entrepreneurs figure out how their people work, I’m very good at figuring out people’s personalities and how to best get them to do beneficial things. Right.
Now, at the end of the day, there’s always, like, any human beings have some kind of resistance to change, right? But really, my focus is always trying to change the mindset. Rather than say, do this, do this, do this, my focus is very much helping people how to look at things. So, I can take a couple of those, sort of home runs.
But one of the big ones is actually building relationships with your staff and like having frequent one-to-one sessions. And a lot of the time before I speak to people, they see it as sort of a waste of time. Whereas, when they learn to understand the value of building relationships, and it’s not just ‘Hey, I’m the boss, you should be doing whatever I tell you.’ And I always use the same example.
But, if you phone up a couple of friends, and you’re like, Hey, can you help me move tomorrow, or next weekend or whenever, like, if they’re going to help depends on how good a friend they are. It’s the same in business. It’s not about building friendships, but it’s about building relationships. If your staff doesn’t respect you, if they don’t have a good relationship with you, they’re going to be a million times less likely to go that extra step to do what it takes to make the business like success.
Having those great relationships, and actually listening to people and so on is critical. The reality is most business owners don’t do a lot of management. They’re often so focused on doing things themselves, that they aren’t managing, which is what slows the business step.
Derek Gallimore: I have an observation of people, athletes, and sports. And you get these triathletes that train, maybe up to 40 hours a week. They’re swimming, they’re cycling. They’re doing all of this for free and they’re putting their body through incredible stress and pressure.
They’re doing this for free. And the only motivation is because they want to do it for themselves, and they want to get over the finish line. And it’s incredible, how if people are motivated, the things that they will do. And you can get some highly paid people within organizations, and if they’re not motivated, they will do the bare minimum, and they will do it maybe as poorly as possible.
There’s such a difference, isn’t there? If someone’s motivated and they understand the mission and want to get there themselves, is there a difference in light and dark?
Mads Singers: Totally. And the one thing I will say, I have a very clear life philosophy, which is, from a management standpoint, at least, that people don’t generally show up to do a bad job. No one shows up to work and says, I want to do a bad job today. Right? But what happens is, when you aren’t motivated, you end up doing a bad job, because, you know, you aren’t bothered about the details, you don’t care what happens.
But no one physically shows up and says, I want to do a really bad job, right? Like, at least I’ve never met them. So the whole thing is, like, as a business owner, or as a manager for any number of people, your core responsibility is really to figure out: How do I trigger these people? How do I get them to deliver their best consistently
Derek Gallimore: And something that is, maybe, significant in terms of the demography that you work with. And I’m assuming this, but I spoke to Mark Webster of Authority Hacker in a previous episode, and you know, he’s in this world of online entrepreneurs, remote workers, co-working, and digital nomads. And I think for people in that world, it is just all they know, but for many listeners, it is so foreign to them, that you can create an organization that spans the globe.
Maybe you’ve never met these people. And you know, your entire relationship is based on text over slack or something. Do you deal a lot with those people? And how do you sort of find that managing in that situation is different from managing in a traditional environment?
Mads Singers: Yeah, so, Mark is one of my clients, or at least so. I mean, a lot of people I work with are online entrepreneurs. And one of the first questions I love asking to understand where they are, is specifically, like, How frequently do you talk with your staff? Like, not just right with them on Skype, but how frequently do you have voice or video conversations with them?
And honestly, I have worked with people that had people employed for them for multiple years, and they’ve never even seen a picture. And all communications have been through text messages on Skype. And that is a little bit scary. Like, I’m not saying it will never work, but I’m just saying the opportunity they have to get more out of that individual is, I don’t even know what word to use, gimongous, to make a point.
Derek Gallimore: And I think the sort of major win is just by having a human connection than the more immediately aligned to the mission and the values and what you’re chasing after.
Mads Singers: And that, in itself, gives a lot, right? I think it’s just as much the value of actually getting to know those people. Because very often, what happens is when people have worked for someone for that long, what tends to happen, and what normally happens in those situations is that they’re sitting doing either very repetitive work or, maybe, very basic work compared to what they could be doing.
So people hire them to do a basic job, but one of the key things, when you hire staff, is you always want to keep growing their skillset so they have a higher value to your organization. Because if you hire people and have them do the same thing over and over again, for years and years like that, if they don’t increase the value of what they do, then you aren’t growing the company as fast, right? So it’s always about looking at how can I improve the output value of the people working with me.
Building an outsourced team
Derek Gallimore: I see that especially with people building outsource teams, they see it very much as an external function of their business, and those people are external people to their business. And I encourage people just to consider outsourcing as any other kind of employment and, you know, to get the best out of your employees, it’s about bringing them on board with the culture and the direction of the company.
Sort of in line with that is people look at outsourcing and remote teams, I think more, is doing the grunt work behind the repetitive stuff. Whereas again, I try and encourage people to, you know, the Philippines or remote workers have incredible potential for leadership expertise to be a strategist and lead your company forward.
Do you think it’s just people assume that, like, outsource staffing is just for grunt work? Or is it just that they don’t necessarily believe in the processes that can build a team up to something greater than that?
Mads Singers: I think it’s a mix. I agree with you. I mean, we have people that have worked with our clients now for four years, and they run their business. Like we have Amazon FBA business, being run and being grown solely by Filipinos.
They definitely can. And their challenge is often when people sit far away, and they’re not paid as much money, people have this tendency to take them a little bit less serious. And that’s such a shame, because it’s, like, it’s a great way to start to build a really good team. And you can get – I mean, I have Filipinos to provide a ton more value than any local labor hired back in Europe, for example, right – So there’s plenty of potentials.
But the challenge is because they don’t build the relationship, because they consider them – I mean, honestly I hate the term virtual assistants, but I use it because people understand it. But the reality is that it’s an employee. I mean, if someone sits in Ohio, or Chicago or Philippines, like, for me makes no difference, right? Like, I’m always trying to optimize what that person can do for the company and how they can contribute.
That’s how you build great people, right? You get them to contribute and make a difference and that’s when they learn and grow. And, the more they do that, like, the better they become as people and the more the contribution, the better the world is. Right? And, realistically, we honestly don’t make much money from the outsourcing work.
Like the key thing for me with the outsourcing business is helping build sort of local Filipinos who are very, very strong business-minded and so on, right? Because the Philippines need that. I mean, they benefit from it tremendously from that sort of skill set. But looking at it from a high-level standpoint, like a lot of small business owners we’re starting with don’t have a tonne of money.
It’s a great way to build a team. And if you build them well and manage them, well, they can make a substantial difference to your business and the future.
Derek Gallimore: Absolutely. Just coming back to an earlier point, your point on virtual assistants. You know, I try and resist calling people virtual assistants as well. But it’s such a common phrase now, and people kind of boast that they, maybe you have 20 or 30 virtual assistants, and if you break that down, you have people in marketing.
You have customer service people, you have salespeople, you have content people. Call them that because it adds a lot of value to their function, as opposed to them just being all grouped into virtual assistants. How do you suggest that people successfully build a team so that they can delegate and also start producing high-value outputs?
Mads Singers: So a couple of things that I generally look at. I have sort of three areas and look at from a delegation standpoint. So if you’re a business owner, and you’re looking to start building a team, there are three things to look at. And those three things in my mind is what’s the stuff you hate doing.
The reason is that the stuff you hate doing, you’re generally not being very effective at, if you can find people who love doing some of the things you hate doing, that can make you and your business substantially more successful. Right? So that’s a good place to start.
The second thing is things that take up a big chunk of your time. So again, ideally, if it is repeatable, that’s a good place to start. Generally, things that take up, like, if you have a certain type of work that takes up 40, 50, 60% of your time, again, that’s a good place to hire, because you can have one person probably doing that full time, and adding a lot of value to that.
And the last thing is looking at things that aren’t necessarily as valuable, but still, have to happen. So sometimes in businesses, you know, various things just are less valuable for the business. And as a business owner, if you keep sitting doing them, you’re not doing more valuable stuff. So offloading those can also be very beneficial. So that’s the three areas that I would start looking at.
Then, when you do the first time, I generally recommend hiring people full time to start. And I do that very specifically because I think when you start trying to bring in people for a few hours, and so on, you spend a lot of time and the output you get is not necessarily that big. Whereas, if you hire people full time, you get a full resource, and you know, they’re fully part of your company. They’re not looking for jobs to sustain their income and so on. So I generally recommend hiring full time, right.
When you look for your first hire, I’m also very, very keen on making sure it’s hired with the right personality, for the specific tasks that they expected to do.
So frequently, I see people hire staff – and it’s not because the staff does not want to do a good job – but some people are significantly better with numbers and things like Excel.
Whereas, other people are much better when it comes to communicating and better like working with people and so on. Right? So really figuring out the right personality and knowing upfront, what’s the personality you’re looking for, for this job, for me, makes a big difference. And that’s one of the key things that I train all my students on. This is really to learn how to do that effectively because it does make such a huge difference in the long run.
Derek Gallimore: I think in the Philippines, as well, it’s a little bit exacerbated. People that are, maybe, coders are not good communicators as a rule. And I think people fall if they provide or if they require too many generalist skills and I assume you see that as well.
There’s a lot of job creep, in terms of people wanting one person to do a little bit of content, a little bit of coding, a little bit of WordPress updating, and also a few sales roles.
Do you have any sort of advice in terms of the early-stage founders that are looking for their first staff, that they also expect to be a sort of entrepreneurial or generalist?
Mads Singers: I’ll tell generally if you’re high in the Philippines, you won’t find a lot of sort of entrepreneurial people in general. That has its benefits and disadvantages, but Filipinos by nature? Probably because of a lack of financial capacity, etc.
I mean, if you ask most people, would you prefer having $100 every single month in your salary or the potential of a $500 bonus, a lot of them would pick the safe bet and get hundred extra, Right? Which is very, like most western people would do it the other way around. But they are so keen on stable jobs, stable income, etc., because it’s critical in a different way than it is in the West in the world. Like, most people, it’s not a matter of do I eat or do I not eat? It’s more a matter of Oh, can I buy a new car? Can I not? Right?
Whereas in the Philippines, for a lot of people, it is a question. If I have a job, I can eat kind of thing. So that makes them sort of slightly – they look at risk in a very different way than we do in the Western world. Right? Which, honestly, is also sometimes a good thing. I mean, a lot of entrepreneurs fear that people stop working with them, and then run away with their business idea and start-up themselves. And like, honestly, I’ve never seen that happen in the Philippines.
But I’ll say from business owners or looking at finding stuff, and 100% I agree a lot of people want a lot of things, right? And that’s exactly why I said, I want to make sure people sit down and see what’s the type of personality I want to do this stuff and then don’t mix it too much.
Honestly, I mean, your spot-on coders in the Philippines are not good communicators. But honestly, the best coders anywhere are not good communicators. They might be slightly better, but they’re generally not great communicators, right? Which is often why you have all these in pretty much any larger organization, you’ll have all these communication problems between marketing and sales and the rest of the company.
It’s because the level of communication and so on is just very, very different between organizations like that, right?
Derek Gallimore: For sure. It’s horses for courses, isn’t it? And like a sports team, it’s about getting the right people into the right roles and then people can excel.
And I really do think about the Philippines as well, they – much more so than, I think, the millennials in the West, where they’re taught to innovate, they all want to be entrepreneurs, they all want to be the business owners within about two weeks of starting a job – in the Philippines, people are very eager just to do a role, know the role, and get it done properly.
They’re very diligently, very detail-oriented, and something that I think millennials in the West would kind of roll their eyes at within about a week of starting a job. So, I think the two character traits can complement each other well, and you can build a very strong business with that.
Mads Singers: I agree with that.
Derek Gallimore: And so in terms of management, there’s the personality trait, there’s the communication channel: do you focus a lot, especially with the online economy, do you focus much in terms of tools or help people build these teams and management processes efficiently online?
Mads Singers: On tools specific, the most common tools, if communication tools will often be like Skype, Slack, Zoom, and things like that. You have project management tools, where would often be like Trello, and Asana, Base Camp, etc. And then you have this sort of process documentation tools, and which again, does it (…) he buff, and generally, my philosophy is pretty simple.
The tool doesn’t matter very much. What matters is that if you say it should be used, it’s being used. Most people spend so much time trying to find the best tool. And the reality is it doesn’t matter. What does matter, though, is that when you pick a tool, and when you say at this company we use this tool, that it’s being used. Because of so many companies, somebody’s business started with the right intentions.
Some people are using it, some are not. And that kills a company, right? Like if it kills the effectiveness, at least, because some people are using tools and some aren’t. That’s just being super ineffective.
Derek Gallimore: Absolutely and where do you stand then, because the community is relatively polarised in terms of when you’re building a team. One option is to, you know, provide incredible detail, have SOPs for everything, write down the processes, everything’s been that.
There’s a rule for everything. You know, following the kind of E-Myth guidelines versus empowering people, expecting them to act professionally and know what they’re doing and to be able to train themselves if they don’t. And, you know, kind of free love, sort of environment. Where do you lean in terms of the highly-controlled versus high levels of freedom?
Mads Singers: I sit somewhere in the middle. I do believe that the thing is, when people have knowledge in business and they leave, you generally have a problem. Right? So I believe not documenting the knowledge that’s already existing in an organization is a risk.
Now, the way I generally work with it is basically like, I recommend to people that when they give someone responsibilities or hire someone new to do customer service, I would work with them and say, Hey, here’s what we do today, here’s our existing processes. I love you, I trust you, I think you have great communication skills, I want you to take over the ownership for our customer service, and I want you to do the best you can in that job. Now, this is what we do today.
I’m sure some things could be done better and I want you to own that. So I want you to be responsible for this document, a.k.a our processes. And I want you to update that when you feel it can be done better in different ways.
So for me, there’s a big, big, big difference between giving people a job and a task and saying, Hey, here’s a task, go and execute this process, versus giving someone the ownership of a process and giving someone that ownership of an area and saying, Hey, we have this process. And the reason why that’s a good idea is that there’s no point in them making all the same hundred mistakes that the person before them made.
The benefit of being able to sort of learn from previous experience is beneficial to any organization, but you want them to have ownership, and you want them to be able to change things where it makes sense.
Derek Gallimore: Absolutely. I completely agree with you. And I think people that are too reliant and dependent on SOPs, for one thing, completely disempowers all of the people that are beholden to the SOPs. Also, the SOP can get outdated quickly and become irrelevant.
If you have too many than it’s a huge ring binder full of documents that no one ever refers to anyway. Yet, as you say, there’s a little bit of vulnerability and exposure if nothing is written down. So it’s always a fine balance, I think, isn’t it?
Mads Singers: I think the majority of organizations don’t have a good system for making sure the SOPs are up to date. And the thing is if you document a whole bunch of processes, and you spend like three months documenting everything you do, and then never updated, that’s waste of three months. So for me, it’s just as important building a great system and framework about how to update it, who updates it, and how frequently.
Generally, what I suggest is that there’s always sort of a three-monthly checkpoint for any process. And when I look at things very different than most is that I always believed it should be the person at the end of the line, who’s responsible for updating them. So if it’s the customer service processes, they should be updated by the customer service team.
Now, the manager of that team will still need to sign them all off, but it’s the team’s responsibility, or it’s the person designated in the team’s responsibility to make sure they are getting updated. Because, where a lot of this process updates stops is in companies where it’s the manager who’s responsible for updating them, and suddenly the manager manages 800 different processes, and they’re never going to have the time to update them.
Derek Gallimore: When it’s SOPs are designed from above, then there’s not the management, there’s not the buy-in from the users. And it’s probably not relevant to the users anyway, is it? So a difficult thing, isn’t it? But I mean, they’re experts in that field that that vouch for. So I’m sure there’s value in it.
Mads Singers: It’s a different mix. Because, I mean that some processes, like, particularly when you look at a higher level company and stuff such as like, staff onboarding processes and the likes, it’s good for some of those for sure to be developed from above.
From a vision and sole standpoint, I see it. And in both ways, I would say like for a lot of business owners, because they do everything in the beginning, in most cases, it makes sense for them to develop processes in the beginning. However, one of the key things where people end up tripping is that they feel to do anything in the company, they need to go do it, they need to learn it, and then they delegate.
I can promise you one thing, the CEO of IBM doesn’t learn every task and then write down how to do them. And neither do you want to be if you want to grow and develop a big company.
While you do it in the beginning, when you employee number one, that’s okay. But when you’re starting building a team, it’s important to have the owners and the developers of future processes underneath you.
Derek Gallimore: Absolutely. And this ties into what I think is a critical subject, certainly for the success and also for the initial anticipation of outsourcing with new clients. It’s the onboarding process. I find if people are small, they’re startups, they may be hiring their first employee and about to outsource, then they don’t have the processes.
They’re not used to delegating. If you’re dealing with a medium-sized company, maybe with 10 or 20 people, and they’re about to outsource, then they’re kind of doing the operations, but they don’t have it outside of their head. And it’s not process-mapped, so it’s hard to transfer across. Then if it’s a bigger company, there is the friction and concern that once it’s transferred over to an outsourcing environment, that it’s not going to be translated so well, and the outputs will change.
How do you generally assure people and help people with successful onboarding? Because I’m sure, you know, you experience as well with any outsourcing new projects, that it is the critical moment. People have to get an early win. People have to get assurance that this outsourcing thing works. What’s your approach to that?
Mads Singers: Nowadays, because we often support a lot with the management of things, we don’t have any issues with that anymore. It used to be a big thing. But nowadays, it’s a lot less of an issue. Like we have as an example, we have a lot of e-commerce businesses, for example, they come to us, like, Hey, we need to do this chat thing, we need to be available 24/7, we can’t afford to.
It doesn’t make financial sense to hire that in the US. So we want to do it outsourced. And it’s actually like, we haven’t struggled that much with it. But I think, again, having a good framework for working with clients, if you’re a client hiring an outsource company or outsource individuals, really making sure you have a good framework to set up for, how to do the learning process, and how to do that. Say, what is it we need to document, what needs to be documented and then doing frequent follow-ups.
One of the things we do see pretty consistently is when people do training, they show someone and they say this is what you should do, now go do it. So, one of the magical steps that I’ve always found is the fact that when you teach people how to do something, you should always watch them do it first before you let them go do it by themselves. Unless it’s something really simple.
But if it’s something more complex, because the challenge is very often, if there’s something that fundamentally misunderstood. Sometimes they might end up with the right result, a.k.a you’re like, Oh, yeah, that one was done right, you must get it now. Whereas if you don’t understand that process thinking, and if you don’t understand how they go about it, you won’t realize if they’re understood a lot.
Usually, the process that we use is you first show them, then you check what like you watched him do it. And that could be a screen share whatever, and sort of have them talk through what they’re doing and why they’re doing it. Because that way, in the beginning, you can often catch if there are any issues with the understanding of the task. Then, you let them go. And then, you still want to do some check once in a while. So that’s generally how I look at it from a delegation standpoint.
Derek Gallimore: It probably loops around to what we first spoke about, which is just communication, isn’t it? Just spend time with people, especially at the start, especially as your onboarding, especially as you’re introducing them to complex tasks. Then check in with them, and then check in with them again, because it doesn’t take too long. But I think people don’t realize that maybe the first month is critical and invest the time but then it will pay off in bucketfuls after that.
Mads Singers: One big thing that I generally see is that I want to give people quick wins. Like, I always ask people this and most people had a day job, right? And I’m always asking the same question, which is, how did you feel the first day you walked into a new job?
And if you’ve ever done that, and you think back and you’re like, wow, that was overwhelming, I didn’t know anyone didn’t know what to do.
Now, try to imagine starting a new job with someone that you have never met in person. Someone far away in a different culture, in a different place. Like, you don’t know anything.
You don’t know this yet, right? You don’t know and understand the document, even like, very often business owners like oh, yeah, I showed you on Google Drive. And you’re like, yeah, that was 6 billion documents, like, What am I supposed to do with that? Right? And very often, people don’t understand what is it like to start a new job. And it’s really important to think about, particularly in terms of the support and sort of communication in the early phases.
I try and always get people early wins because you want to boost their confidence and boost their belief in their ability. So actually give them at least initially, something that’s a little bit easier. So they can say, wow, I did it. I feel like I can do this work. Right? That often pays off big time because they feel much more competent, that they feel like they have the skillset and they get less afraid with future tasks.
Derek Gallimore: Absolutely. And I think, with an outsourcing relationship, I think the client is worried that things won’t work out and they need assurances quick and they’re not sure how to manage it.
But equally, the staff members are as concerned and they’re worried about the future of their job and the opportunities. It’s kind of a nervous time for both, isn’t it, and it’s just so important to kind of get it off to the right start.
Mads Singers: Yeah, for sure.
Derek Gallimore: So, Mads of madssingers.com, thank you so much. That’s incredible insight. If people want to know any more about your coaching or your outsourcing, how can they get in touch with you?
Mads Singers: Well, madssingers.com is a great place to start. Outsourcing business is called aristosourcing.com in one word. And again, I’m on all social channels might not be me entering but at least my profile exists and Facebook and LinkedIn and Email, Mads of madssingers.com, etc. So, plenty of options.
Derek Gallimore: Fantastic. And we’ll put all of that in the show notes. Thanks, Mads.
Mads Singers: Thank you very much.
Derek Gallimore: Okay, that was Mads Singers of madssingers.com. If you want any of the show notes, go to outsourceaccelerator.com/260. And as always, if you want to ask us anything, then just drop us an email to [email protected] See you next time.