Mitchell Levy – Building a successful outsourced team

Ep 240 Mitchell Levy

Mitchell Levy

Today we are joined by Mitchell Levy of Think aha!. Mitchell is a TED speaker and international best selling author of over 60 books. Mitchell outsources all of his operations for his business. I wanted to get a perspective of someone who is really living this, who has gone through the ups and downs of business and the outsourcing process.  

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Mitchell Levy - Building a Successful Outsourced Team

Mitchell Levy – Think aha

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Derek Gallimore: Welcome to the Outsource Accelerator podcast. This is a short format podcast where we explore business and outsourcing mastery. My name is Derek Gallimore and I am really excited to bring you the leading podcast in outsourcing.

Derek Gallimore: Hi and welcome back. This is episode number 240. So today we are joined by Mitchell Levy of Think aha.  Mitchell is a TED speaker and international best selling author of over 60 books. Why am I talking to Mitchell? Because he outsources all of his operations for his business.  he uses a strong team in the Philippines and also people in India. So I wanted to get a perspective of someone who is really living this, who has gone through the ups and downs of business and the outsourcing process.  he’s certainly mastered it now. and we discussed some of his purchase for, managing a team and training a team and onboarding and team. So it’s really, really good conversation that I had with, Mitchell. I’m sure you will enjoy this and I’m sure there’s a lot to take away. I certainly took a lot away from this chat. So if you’re on any of the show notes, of course, go to enjoy

Derek Gallimore: Hi and welcome back everybody. Today. I’m super excited to be joined by someone a little bit different, a little bit left of center. He’s not in directly in the outsourcing industry himself, but he certainly knows the benefits of it and runs a super successful businesses, a number of businesses,  and, and you know, has direct experience of outsourcing. So it was great to have him on the show today. Hi Mitchell, how are you doing?

Mitchell Levy: I’m doing great. Thanks for having me.

Derek Gallimore: Yeah, no absolute pleasure. And I’ll allow you to introduce yourself, but you are the,  you’re the aha guy of Aha that, so what exactly is Aha, that’s for sure.

Mitchell Levy: So we,  we press the easy button for somebody who wants to have a book. So typically we’re working with busy, successful executives who recognize the need to have a book, but just have zero time. So over four month period we will go straight publish, distribute, make the author an Amazon bestselling author. And here’s the cool part. They’ll spend about five hours of time.

Derek Gallimore: Wow. Super Cool. Huh? So there’s just, it’s a taking automation to the next level really isn’t it?

Mitchell Levy: It’s, well, it’s easy button. We have a lot of,  in your words we, we outsource and I’ve got a, a good strong team that, that I’ve used mostly Manila based, some in India based and some in the US but,  we have a nice team and I’m a nice set of processes and we press the easy button. So think of it this way. We are outsourcing, we’re just outsourcing the thought leadership that companies need to create by having books in their people’s hands. We’re outsourcing that.

Derek Gallimore: Fantastic. And so what do you say then? Obviously you’ve, you’ve produced hundreds of books now and you’re not a one show pony. You’ve done over 800 books. You’ve,  launched numerous companies, and you’re the best selling author of 16 books yourself. you obviously need to have processes in place and be able to scale this because, you know, otherwise it just wouldn’t happen with it. And so do, do you sort of see it as a superpower of yours that you are able to build the processes to make this viable as an expandable scalable business?

Mitchell Levy: So great question. So used a catch phrase, superpower. So my real superpower is pulling the genius out of somebody’s head and, and so what, what I do particularly well and, and of of the entire process, it is all, it is all outsourced. It’s all has a number of team members who are doing different things. The thing that I have, we likely not outsourced yet, is actually that two hour interview up front where we’re, we’re actually pulling the genius out of the expert and at some point in time where I get way too busy to be able to do that. I’ve already mapped out the plan, the architecture of creating a certification program where we have other interviewers and 40 identified interviewers. Now that said, what I’ve always prided myself to be good at,  is, and this is why I’ll call myself up, parallel entrepreneur versus a serial entrepreneur, but I’ve always been good at is I find a problem.

Mitchell Levy: I solve it, I document how it gets solved and I hire other people to actually do it on a repetitive basis. So I, so you don’t necessarily want to see me on the repetitive thing cause you know, like many of us who do those sorts of things, I get bored way too quickly. So by the way, that’s why I love doing the interview because every human is unique. That said what was fascinating to me on the outsourcing piece, and I’d say I’d say I took a really big dive in outsourcing about 10 years ago and I, I was, I met some guy who who said, hey, you could outsource you, can he do the whole bottle acts so much less money, easy to do. Very straightforward. And I literally, I made mistakes for the first eight months. I went through three or four people I would speak and we’d have weekly conversations and the person on the other side would say, Yep, got it, got it, got it.

Mitchell Levy: And the output would be wrong. And then I kind of woke up one, and I don’t know if it were, we are in a visual medium. We’re not in a visual medium at the moment. We’re doing audio. So let me just say that my favorite diagram in the world is a box. So you have, imagine having a box, I call that the black box. You have a line going into the black box called that input in the line going out of the black box called that output. So it’s the input output diagram. It’s any system person needs, needs to end, has to understand that. So what was interesting is I had this black box and I had a conversation with the person doing outsourcing for me. And so we provided information for the input. I did not provide information for the, for the black box and did not provide information for the output.

Mitchell Levy: So I was getting exactly what I was asking for. Like I would talk about verbally what I wanted, but I didn’t describe what I expected for the output had about going about doing it. And I’m like, Oh, let’s fix that. So what I finally did is said, hey, let’s document, and I’m the most simplest way to document using Google forms. So everything in our process, every step along the way, every, every,  for instance, if we’re doing a cover, we do covers for different styles of books. There’s a process. If we’re doing interior for doing copywriter, we’re doing content. So every piece of the book publishing process now it’s documented. It’s in a Google form. And so when we hire somebody new or even somebody who’s part of, even something as simple as a naming convention, because when you’ve published 850 books and you’ve got tons of moving parts, you got to have a naming convention.

Mitchell Levy: Otherwise things get out of out of hand. We have a workflow document with the naming convention. And so when somebody doesn’t name things properly, we don’t have to say fix it. Here’s the answer. We say, by the way, please reread workflow document. And once I started essentially defining the input output, so the workflow document has, hey, here’s the stuff that goes in. The most important thing is here’s the stuff that comes out and then there’s a process that goes on in the middle and then that process is documented. And when you have done that, when you’ve actually documented your input, your output in the process of how to do it. Now you can go to somebody who’s bright and capable, but may not have grown up with your culture, may not have grown up with the way you’re thinking about things, the way you’re trained, the way you were educated, the way you process stuff on a day to day basis.

Mitchell Levy: When you say a word of what you expected as output, they meet, they have a different mindset. That doesn’t mean they’re mindset is wrong, it just means what they think you think are not the same if you document input, output in the process. Holy Cow. So like I said, it took me about seven or eight months. I went through two or three sort of Va’s and I finally found one I liked, but I realized I liked it cause I started documenting. And after that, oh man, everything, the gates were opened and outsourcing’s absolutely fabulous. And you have to always remember in my mind that it actually, you and I, in our preliminary conversation, we were talking about something that needs to get done and you’re like, oh, that’s easy. And you know, you know, for, for the listening audience, you know what Derek did? He walked through that black box, he walked through.

Mitchell Levy: Oh, here are the steps. Here’s the process. You go ABCD. Well, all you have to do is you document the steps that you document the process. You then to hire somebody to do what you ask them to do. And it doesn’t mean there’s no variability in that. It means there’s still some creativity because you build that into the process. But if you actually define what you want your output to be and you define your input in the process in the middle,  you can hire now resources from around the world that is significantly less expensive than, for instance, we have to pay here in the United States.


Derek Gallimore: Yeah, this is such a juicy, juicy stuff. Eventually Mitchell, because it’s exactly the process that a lot of,  prospective outsources or people that are fearing or being apprehensive about outsourcing really go through. So,  I find it so valuable that, you know, you went through that journey yourself and then you actually came out the other side of that black box yourself and realize that you actually need,  you know, you need to map these processes. You need to obviously have the input, then define the output and define the processes, which is critical, isn’t it? But what do you say Mitchell to,  you know, we get a lot of clients saying, look, I want to hire the best. They need to know what they’re doing. because I’m busy and you know, if you hire maybe a qualified book publisher, they just need to know what to do. So why is there a need of you spending all your time building these processes? Can’t these people build a, the processes themselves?

Mitchell Levy: So, God we never do that

Derek Gallimore: wouldn’t that be turned down the gauntlet there?

Mitchell Levy: So the  the answer is if you have, so, so let’s say you hire a hundred, you outsource and you hire a hundred people. Hmm. Most likely you’ll end up keeping, unless you have a really great vetting process, maybe a keep 10% or 15% right? Yeah. And, and other 10 to 15% of the hundred people, maybe there’s one or two who could build a process for you. Let me tell you what I found in, in different cultures, right? I typically, if I’m programming, I’m either going to eastern Europe because they’re mathematically trained on and they’re good at programming or I’m going to India because generally speaking, the technology’s good. The, the benefit of eastern Europe over India is simply I have more, a better looking code that’s being produced at, neither of which by default will produce good documentation. So that’s, if you want an output that included documentation, you need to make sure you specify that as an input.

Mitchell Levy: When I go to the Philippines when I’m looking for is the most important thing that’s needed for any business to be successful and it has high end customer value, high end customer input, high end decision to make the customer happy. Now the customer shouldn’t be me. The customer is my customer who I’m working with. And the thing is when, when I take an existing process and I share it with somebody and it’s well documented generally speaking of they follow the process, they got it. When I’m sitting with somebody who hasn’t,  created or done something new yet, it’s a 50, 50, or maybe a 90 10, 90% opportunity that that’s us conceptually the brain of the person I’m interacting with. It’s just not wired to create new stuff, right? For this is no reflection on anyone in the world because there’s always people who stand out and I got people on my team who I actually do allow them to create some of the processes themselves.

Mitchell Levy: But generally speaking, it requires a one on one opportunity where whoever’s managing that person to sit with a person, if you’re creating a new process, it, you can definitely do it joint. So you do it together. And once you do it once, here’s the cool part. Once you build it together, you do it once and there’s joint ownership out. Now what happens is the person in the other side can actually execute that on an ongoing basis where you, the person who’s helping to create it the first time out, you can go on to move to the next thing. And so I think what happens in the US we, we ended up hiring people at crazy prices and we say, hey, find a solution for us and solve a problem and build the solution. Right? And, and eventually the turned into something, hopefully good. Or maybe we train them and they, they leave and they go somewhere else.

Mitchell Levy: Whereas the outsourcing model is we’re paying significantly less money. I had one of the people I had working for me who is who, who,  was in the Philippines, she ended up taking the job. She ended up taking three jobs of people who are as paying five times more each and she took off the jobs and do them all like, oh my God. Wow.

Derek Gallimore: Incredible efficiency here currently because,

Mitchell Levy: Exactly. Because what happened is the US person didn’t follow a process, didn’t think it was important as we moved to the, to the person that feeling sick. Well here’s the process, here’s the you put, here’s the output, here’s what you do. And you know what it, she kept taking them more, which is, which is crazy. And so I think it requires a small mind shift change. And this is, and Derek, this is a good question.

Mitchell Levy: If you’re staying the US whether you’re a manager or a VP or director or a CEO, one of the actual best things you could do, a, probably the best thing you do in your life has, is have kids because of your parent. It shows you how to manage other people, right? Cause you’re not going to go to your two year old son or daughter and yell at them because they’re not doing something right. You, if you want them to do something you encourage them to do and you show them how to do it and you show them enough times and they’ll get it right. So the next best thing you could do is take your staff and encourage everyone on your staff to hire somebody and outsource. One part of what they do could be something really simple, really straightforward and see whether or not they can efficiently manage somebody who has basically different culture, different minds have different approach and see if you can get the output that’s, that’s appropriate.  it’s one of the best things when, when I do consulting at corporations, one of the first things I do is, okay, if you outsource this piece of your job, which by the way is really low end. I know you may like doing it, but not a good use of your time. Why don’t you try outsourcing it and see what you can do?

Derek Gallimore: Well, it’s a good way of learning. It was rather isn’t it? They said the best way to learn is by, you know, see one, do one teach one, and by the actual act of teaching or delegating or creating a process, then you understand that process a lot better than when you were just kind of blindly doing it without rid of the conscious awareness. Yeah,

Mitchell Levy: absolutely. And you know, it’s hard. And I’ll just add one more of my, my, my favorite catch phrases for me. When people say to me, what’s, what’s the best thing you’ve learned in your business career? And it’s to go through life with one mentor in two mentees. So what’s fascinating is you can take on people you’re working with as mentees and here’s the most important part. Remember that you’re going to learn from them as well.

Derek Gallimore: Yeah. And I think that’s the same or are they outsourcing as well, isn’t it? People perceive it as a, you know, these are always going to be people following my commands and following this process. It’s not really about that. It’s about when someone is new to your organization that needs to be an onboarding. You need to bring them into your culture, show them the processes so that they understand the way that you work in your product and your clients. But that doesn’t mean then, and then so as you mentioned, you know, you have the inputs, the blank box, the outputs,  the processes mapped out, but then eventually they become a part of your organization. And you know, they then as much as anyone, once they know your product, your client, your business, they can start building the processes themselves so that then they are delegating.

Derek Gallimore: And this thing all organically grows, it’s not a,  you know, kind of everything will always come back to you as a hub and spoke model. It’s more just about,  properly enabling people during the onboarding and training process so that they are able to succeed. Yeah.

Mitchell Levy: Here, here. So, yes,

Derek Gallimore: I mean, what do you, what do you say? So, okay, so I’ve got another rebuttal now, but it is interesting, isn’t it? You know, it took you seven or eight months and very commonly we see people coming and outsourcing and,  also being very successful in business themselves. And thinking that they know how this works and they will very quickly, you know, show the Filipino workforce how things are done efficiently. But actually what you do see is there’s a learning process for the client, for the employer because they have to learn how to process map. They have to learn how to train, how to bring people up to speed,  in an efficient manner. So, so there’s, there’s, there is learning on both sides, isn’t there? And all throughout every stage of business, it’s always this, you know, how am I progressing myself and how am I improving these processes?

Mitchell Levy: Oh, absolutely. And here’s the one thing in the Filipino culture, from my understanding doesn’t, if you’re the boss, so, so I’m the boss. I’ve got, I’ve got 30 ish people who are working for me, 10 out a very consistent every month in month out. They do similar stuff. The other 20 are a project by project as things happen. And the thing that’s interesting, those people who I would call my management, the Filipino culture is one in which they don’t necessarily want to say no to you. Correct? Right. They don’t necessarily want to say, oh sorry, we can’t do that. And so what you have to do much. The same thing’s true with Indian programmers, right? You, you keep adding more scope creep and they keep saying yes and then, and then when you miss the deadline, they’re like, well you kept giving me more stuff in.

Mitchell Levy: The question is why didn’t you stop me? Or you’re the client, right? So the thing is what you have to do, particularly with those that you want to groom, you don’t immediately hire somebody and they become part of your management team. You have to spend time and energy and resources and you have to provide opportunities where it is easier for them to say no, right? Cause they’re not ever going to say no to you directly. They, they, you need to provide a facility where it’s comfortable, where it’s okay to make mistakes where it’s okay to not do things right. But you know, when there’s ambiguity, it’s, that’s where it becomes very difficult for people to make decisions. And so again, they will

Derek Gallimore: default back to their cultural norms if you want them to come out. And,  you know, raise things with you, ask questions, challenge you, that is against their cultural norms. So they have to be in a position of comfort, a position of trust, you know, they have to be feeling comfortable within your culture to do, you know, and, and it is,  I know this is where you get to, do you invest?

Mitchell Levy: Yeah, I am sorry. I was, I got so excited. I, I let, I let my team book time on my calendar.  I let my clients with my calendar’s open, my clients and prospects and book time line counter. It saved me two to three weeks last year by just using an automated calendar to them. And what happens is the, for my team, if I am the bottleneck, and by the way, I try my best never to be the bottleneck, but there’s an occasional project where, well, I’m the bottleneck. So what I try to do up front and during and after is I try to make sure that whoever’s responsible for making sure I get stuff done is to feel comfortable reminding me, booking time on my calendar that says, by the way, Mitchell, if you don’t do this tomorrow, we will miss this deadline. Right?

Mitchell Levy: And, and it’s, that takes a little bit of effort upfront, right? Cause that’s not, that’s not natural for people to do. And what you have to do is make sure your organization feels comfortable being, we’ll talk that way. Cause I a good excuse is not to miss a deadline. There is no good excuse to miss a deadline. You can’t say, well Mitchell, you didn’t get to it. Well I didn’t get to it because you didn’t remind me in a way that I heard you. Right? And, but it’s not their fault. It’s really my fault. I didn’t get to it. But I, if I’m, if I’m going all over the place, I would like somebody to say, all right, Mitchell, you’ve got a half hour. This is the last half hour. You have to do this. Please do this right now. Right. And I look at my calendar, I’m very calendar driven. I’m like, Oh, thank you. Right. And, and I get it done. But you don’t start that way, right? It’s, yeah.

Derek Gallimore: Yeah. The, yeah. And I think we’re all stronger in the in teams, aren’t we? I mean, you know, there’s another company that is just one person and they suddenly know a publicly listed company if just one person that really needs to be a team effort and then I think that way stronger as a result. What do you say though, you know, you, and when I,  counseling coach people in terms of what to outsource, what are the easiest things to outsource? The things that I tend to steer away from all say, you know, do this later. the things that are that very customer facing, because that is the coal face of your business and things that are very culturally, ease toteric or, you know, sort of, geographically located. So someone in the Philippines might not know what a fire places because they’ve probably never seen one.

Derek Gallimore: but in terms of your,  you know, you have very creative outlet, you’re writing books, there’s a lot of, I would say cultural nuances and this is something that people are very worried about in terms of shore. It’s fine if we saved money, but what about the quality?  what about the, the understanding and you know, I use sort of banging your head against the wall trying to get this output to a quality that you require. but it seems like you’ve, you’ve had no friction in terms of that. What are you saying in terms of the cultural awareness and getting your team to produce the output at a, at a quality that you require to, to oversee wow your customers.

Mitchell Levy: Oh well so there’s many different forms of output. Let’s be, let’s take a basic one, a book cover, right? A book cover, a book jacket. So when I have to tell you with 100% certainty that I will never, this is now. Okay. Maybe I should never use the word never. Cause that’s, how about we say in general we would not let our Filipino cover designers talk directly with our clients.

Mitchell Levy: That just a no no because it’s for exactly what you said, cultural norms going back and forth, the ability to deliver on time because generally speaking graphics, graphics people, they don’t actually see words, they just see images. Right. And, and if you say make it pretty well pretty might mean flowers to them. And if you’re in a corporate world, flowers or no, no. Right. So, so we in that particular case are, are covered designer talks directly with an outsource project manager. The project manager’s the one who talks with the clients. Right. And each step along the way. So when we get to the point where we want to build the cover, we will then have, we have an email that we send out and we use an online project management tool. So the email sent out in a project management tool that says, how would you like us?

Mitchell Levy: Do you have ideas for the cover? We could base it on your website, we could base it on an idea, we could base it on an a picture where we can base it on a concept. Give us some thoughts on terms of what direction you’d like us to take. And so you know, most of the time people have a strong opinion every now and then when the author says a surprise me, I have no clue. Yeah, we’ll create for, you know, that’s when we’ll go to our graphics guy will create four or five covers. So we’ll have them create four or five covers. We’ll send him along, but he may not get it. We may actually, before we send that to the client, we may go back and make a couple changes in their iterations beforehand. And I think, I think the thing, what can you outsource?

Mitchell Levy: You can outsource anything that needs to get done where at the end of the day, unless it’s completely and well documented, isn’t a direct touch point with a client right now, let me rephrase that. We, you know, I was sitting on the board of directors of a public, we outsource lead, lead marketing, lead management, but everything there, including the phone calls to the clients and in some cases the closing was well documented scripts. Right. So it was very clear in terms of what step needs to happen along the way. So at first,  so a good example you, you have, you talked about nuance and culture. You know, we have our writers which are mostly Filipino based and they have a writing school that we send them through our copy editor and our content editor is us based, particularly when we have US clients. When we, when we have Australian clients, we look for in an Australian place, when we have corporations that do technology, we tried to find technology based, right?

Mitchell Levy: Because at the end of the day, you want to make sure that the content is readable by the client, right? And so you can outsource the initial creation, but then you want to spend a little bit more money and time. I’m making sure copy at it and continent it is done in such a way that it fits the nuance of whoever it is, the customers that you’re interacting with.

Derek Gallimore: Yeah. To get that exact, that voice that resonates with them.

Mitchell Levy: Yeah. I would say, let me just add one more. As much as I would like to find a human, like a Web web designer, you know, so our web guy is, we’ve got actually three or four different web guys other than one Filipino the rest is an India. And what I’d have to say is generally speaking, you don’t want the same thing, the web person to talk directly with your clients.

Mitchell Levy: Right. Because you’re in trouble. Right. So, so what happens is you looking for, to me the, you’re looking for that project manager who we have a number of project managers who were Filipino base. And by the way too, so you know, I’m still looking for more. So always open for ideas and suggestions.

Derek Gallimore: Good. We can look you up.

Mitchell Levy: Thank you. Looking for that project manager who can take a look at our workflow documents. Take a look at what we’re doing. Understand who the client is and then when the information comes back from other people, we’re outsourcing their, their first line of review. So now when they get really good at it, they could be the first and last line of review unless they are just, they just don’t think so. The person I’ve been working with for eight years, every now and then she says, Mitchell, you know I think you have to look at this.

Mitchell Levy: When I hear that I know there’s something wrong but she feels uncomfortable talking about it or doesn’t feel great and I’ll look at it and I’ll pinpoint exactly what needs to get the ax. But if it’s normal and it’s something she seen in the past and it’s following process, if a client gets upset, that’s really okay because they follow the process and sometimes are silly and so

Derek Gallimore: instead of normal, if the process isn’t it?

Mitchell Levy: Yeah, It’s within the process. Then you basically, you go to the client and go, alright, how can I help you here? Oh this person did blah blah blah. Well that’s kind of what they did. They were supposed to do, cause that’s what you told us to do. How can we fix it? Right? And this long if you smile and, and, and help people fix it, it’s, and, and what’s important in that particular case is not to get mad at the people you outsource if they’re following your process. For sure. For sure. And, and of course if they follow your process and your process is wrong, then the important thing is fix it. The process.

Derek Gallimore: Valuable isn’t it? Because that person that’s been with you eight years, they’re now far beyond the initial process and you’re building this understanding together, you know, how to read each other’s communication, you know? And that’s really no different to, you know, standard employment relationship really isn’t, you know, and it’s just this benefit of time, benefit of your onboarding, obviously the, the sort of trust and understanding that’s built up between you and then it just becomes exponentially more efficient, more profitable, more productive. Yeah.

Mitchell Levy: Oh, it’s beautiful. And, and we’ve been working this year on cloning her so that we can have in different areas of life, at least four or five other people who have, have got to that level. And we’re working on that. But I think probably the coolest thing for me is, is for the first time,  with, with this particular point, I’m actually going to the Philippines and I’ll spend a week with the team. We’ll be doing team building exercises. We will in two different cities. We’re going to have about a hundred people come in, which we’re going to talk to. And I’ll do a little bit more of the rah rah we’ll crowdsource a book live,  which will basically show people what we do. And my key project managers said, cause I let the team build my schedule and it, key project manager said, Mitchell, everyone’s taking your time. Can I, can I borrow you for a day so that we could spend time with my family? has, and I’m Derek, I’m telling you, I, I don’t, I didn’t even know, you know, tears came to my eyes and I’m like, yes, yes, yes, please. You know, and, and, but that’s really the reason is the fact that the team feels more like family and wants to, wants to have me be part of that. That’s just beautiful. I mean, that’s, that’s really what we’re, we’re doing.

Derek Gallimore: It’s a great fitting incidence. It’s absolutely incredible. And you’re bringing about the, you know, the different roles, different people.  you know, it’s just like a sports team. There’s people have different roles and different purposes don’t then and the coders, you know, and we try and encourage people to segment roles a lot differently,  than might in the West where everyone can do a little bit of everything, in the Philippines or India, the coders that developers, they’re not really going to be very good at sales. And I think it’s realizing, you know, who you have on your bus and what they are good at doing.  and, and just being mindful of people’s skill sets and then working towards those strengths as opposed to trying to get people to do a little bit of everything. And then, you know, being disappointed when maybe their language skills or their, like outgoing personality is, isn’t important. You’d need for that particular role.

Mitchell Levy: Well, absolutely. Well said.

Derek Gallimore: So thank you so much, Mitchell. It’s fascinating learning from,  from you and those real life experiences. And I hope that it is inspiring for, for other people to just dip their toe in, start with one role, and then see where it takes them. Because it’s very commonly, from what I see, is a one way path to,  to outsourcing success and liberation and people’s businesses. So a, and of course we’re going to have to catch up when you’re here, but if people want to get in touch with you, Mitchell, how can they do that?

Mitchell Levy: So the best thing you can do is, is go to a URL. It’s just my name, Mitchell Levy, M I T C H. E. L. L. L. E. V. Y. That’s three L’s, So you’ll see a customer testimonial. You’ll see, you can connect to me on social media sites and if you were interested in booking time on my calendar, you could find time to book and a, it’s So a single place that has similar branding across everything that we do and we’ve just make it, it’s easy to reach out and, and if you’re interested in getting your brand out there, becoming the author of a book that’s going to help you close more business, that’s what we do.

Derek Gallimore: Fantastic. Exciting. I feel like I need to write a book now, Mitchell,

Mitchell Levy: it’s amazing. Well Derek, I’m excited to talk to you about that and, and using your services because there we need to, for what I, the companies at the stage where we need to level up and there’s some things that are easy for us to do and things that were stumbling on. And I’d love to pick your brain on a couple of areas that were stumbling on.

Derek Gallimore: Fantastic. I am here for you, Mitchell, so thank you so much and  it’s, it’s been an absolute pleasure and amazing insight into how you build your business.

Mitchell Levy: Thanks for having me. Have a great day everybody.

Derek Gallimore: Okay. That was Mitchell Levy of Think aha. If you want to get in touch with Mitchell, then of course go to the show notes, which is an and as always, if you want to ask us anything and just drop us an email to [email protected] See you next time

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